What anti-war "movement"?
Wow, the House of representatives just got done with one of the most important debates in the last year. The resolution they debated said
"It is the sense of the House that deployment of US. Forces in Iraq be terminated immediately."
AND IT WAS JUST COMPLETELY DEFEATED. 3 to 403. Less than one percent of the House members voted for it. This is great news for the soldiers!
It was a phenomenal debate that what well over due. Rep. Sam Johnson (R-Tex) gave a very moving speech to end the debate. Sam Johnson was a POW in Vietnam and knows all too well what it feels like when a nation turns its back on the soldiers.
All of those anti-war extremists on this campus must now know that they are alone. Where was Tammy Baldwin to help you? She even voted against this resolution! Ha, your "movement" is dead and I am smiling ear to ear!
posted by Rob at 22:30
11 Comments:
It took you a very long time to post. How dare you tread your readers like that!! Just kidding...but seriously, you have a good blog and should post more often.
Sat Nov 19, 01:55:00 PM CST
Scoreboard!
Sat Nov 19, 03:41:00 PM CST
That vote was a political stunt and an embarrassment to the country.
Sat Nov 19, 03:47:00 PM CST
Bob-
I don't understand your point. You are telling me that the Democrats are a pro-war party. There's nothing new here.
The Democrats for the last century have actually had a MORE hawkish foriegn policy than the Republicans. Democrats got us into WWI (the war "to make the world safe for Democracy" in the words of Woodrow Wilson) WWII, the Cold War, Korea, and Vietnam. Republicans got us OUT of Vietnam, and only into Iraq I & II, and Afghanistan.
In a recent poll, 49% of the people of Wisconsin answered yes to the question "Would you like to see the United States withdraw all troops immediately from Iraq?" while only 40% answered no. Here's the link http://www.strategicvision.biz/political/wisconsin_poll_1116.htmM
So basically what you are telling me, is that BOTH political parties are radically out of touch with the will of the people. Again, no surprise here... thats just the way capitalism works. Our government is controlled by money, not by citizens.
Further, being against the killing of inoccent people because of their religion and ethnicity, does NOT make one an extremist. If anything, being FOR such a murderous scheme makes you an extremist.
Now let me tell you a little something, Bob. While you were marching in the Veteran's Day parade, after excluding an actual group of Veterans (Vets for Peace) from marching in it, and feeling self-rightous waving the American flag, showing your blind obedience to the state through its religion (NATIONALISM) let me tell you what I was doing.
My girlfriend was sitting inside her house waiting for me to come over, around 5 or 6pm (on Veterans Days) and she saw some cops pull up. She went outside to see what happened. It turns out her upstairs neighbors had called in some homeless guys, who were drinking on a couch behind the dumpster in the driveway. They weren't bothering anyone, just being "too loud" (which her under-aged neighbors were doing later that very night...)
As I got to her house, I saw Stephanie telling the cops, that those homeless guys were her guests, and that the cops should leave the homeless guys alone. We talked with the two guys (their names are Steve and Mark) for a while afterwards, and discovered that BOTH of them are war Veterans -- one of Korea and one of Vietnam.
So thats what I did for Veterans Day. You, on the other hand, were trying to rationalize the killing of inoccent people. And yes, I'm one of these radical leftist, anti-American, anti-war "extremists" you are demonizing.
You make me sick, Bob. People like you are the reason there is so much imperialism/terrorism (same thing...) oppression, racism, and injustice in this world. I bet if you lived upstairs to Stephanie, you would have been the one calling the cops on the homeless Veterans.
Sat Nov 19, 07:46:00 PM CST
bill,
you're a self-righteous douchebag.
-common sense
Sun Nov 20, 03:07:00 PM CST
Yes, the Republicans did force the democrats to vote on the "cut and run" plan. The same plan I hear advocated everyday on this campus!! "Out of Iraq NOW" Right Bill? Well, it seems the American people are against you. Your "out now" plan is just insane and this vote proved it.
Sun Nov 20, 04:23:00 PM CST
By the way Bill, you make me sick. You say you support the troops, yet you protest them at Recruiting Centers. You say you are for the troops, yet you protest ROTC on campus. You say you are for the troops, yet you protest Navy Recruiters at a Medical Job Fair. What the hell is wrong with you? You hate the soldiers, you hate this country, and you hate the values upon which this country was founded. Please, move to a more accepting country like France...wait, they have some riots over there right now. Move to some place like Hungary...wait, they arrested someone for wearing a communist star (great freedom of speech huh?). Move to Canada and live your life in that socailist empire and have fun (they are going to pass massive tax cuts to the middle and upper class by early next year).
People like you make me sick.
Sun Nov 20, 04:29:00 PM CST
Bob-
FYI- I walked out of the last Stop the War meeting, because the folks in the ISO made a proposal that I apologize to them for criticizing the way they control STW, without even naming their organization. Earlier in that meeting, I made a proposal that we change the official group slogan/focus from "Troops out NOW!" (which is largely the result of the ISO's control) to "Smash the Military-Industrial Complex." My proposal was tabled until after the "Announcements" section (another feature of ISO front-groups) and never brought up again.
As I've sarcastically said to ISOers in the past... If we keep chanting "Troops out NOW!" loud enough and long enough, it might just end the war.
I have no qualms about counter-recruiting. I do not support the existance of the military, because it is an institution of organized violence. The only thing which seperates the US military from terrorist organizations like Al-Qaeda, is that one is has state political power, and is funded by taxpayer money and the other is not.
Many soldiers sign up for economic reasons. This is not a statement against those individuals, one of whom is a friend of mine, was an activist in Progressive Dane, protested against the initial invasion of Iraq, and still opposes the war while he is over in Iraq fighting it. Counter-recruitment is a statement against the system of militarism and imperialism, which includes the economic exploitation of lower-class individuals who sign up for the military because they have few other opportunities.
But you are completely missing the point with counter-recruitment. The Memorial Union is a private club, of which all students are members. The Navy recruiter is NOT a member of that private club, yet the "free-speech rights" of the Navy (which is not even a natural person!! The recruiter is not there to represent himself, but is being paid to represent an institution) are protected by the state, while the rights of individuals who oppose the Navy are coercively repressed.
You do not have to agree with what we are saying when we counter-recruit. But we have the right to say it. Further, the UW police seargant told us we were in violation of University Policy, but couldn't even identify what rule we were violtating with a copy of UW administrative code sitting in front of him. The recruiters are blatantly in violation of University policy, by the admission of John Wiley himself, requiring that all groups which recieve University privileges not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
There is something severely wrong with this picture, Bob. I know you worship the state and all, but you cannot deny that in this case there is extreme hypocracy on the part of the government and UW administration.
And btw... I am not moving to Canada. That would be defeatist. I do not accept defeat. I will not stop fighting until every person on this earth is free. You, on the other hand, will keep fighting to make sure everyone is oppressed and obedient to a violent criminal gang, otherwise known as "The State."
Sun Nov 20, 08:35:00 PM CST
Well, all this discussion is beside the point now. GW said that dissent is okay and that you can be a Patriot and still be against the war.
Bob can unclench his butt. Bill can unclench his teeth and we can all seek some common ground. That is what you want, Bob, right? A common understanding for a way to end the fighting.
Iraq isn't Final Fantasy XXII. There won't be a final battle against the ultimate enemy. Cheney won't swallow a power pill and turn into a screaming pterodacyl of Armageddon.
This discussion calls for thoughtful, truthful debate not petulant voting to knock down a man of straw.
Wake up, grow up and see this vote for what it was. If the sycophants who introduced the bill did not vote for it then it was a cheap political stunt that only shows up the drafters for the empty suits they are.
Mon Nov 21, 08:58:00 AM CST
Cheney at 19% and dropping. And that's not just because he is such a nasty piece of work. Most people correctly link him with the bogus justifications for the Iraq war. And the cynical campaign of misinformation carried out by the Bush administration.
Mon Nov 21, 12:13:00 PM CST
How to end the fighting in Iraq: 1. Send a unified message that we will do what ever it takes to bring order to Iraq. 2. Send a clear message that the Amemerican people will not buckle under the pressure from the Terrorists. 3. Convice the EU or UN to force Syria and Iran to stop sending soldiers and ammo to aid the Insurgants.
Tue Nov 22, 02:38:00 AM CST
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